Totally Cooked: Episode 12 – Understanding the psychology of the climate crisis

Climate grief is a real and growing psychological phenomenon. Around the world, people are grappling with the emotional weight of the climate crisis, from anxiety about the future to mourning the loss of places, species, and a sense of stability.

So how do we live a meaningful life and stay resilient in the face of such an overwhelming, collective challenge? How do we hold on to hope and contribute to change when others in our communities, our politics and our families seem indifferent or even hostile to climate action?

More broadly, what’s stopping us from acting faster, and at scale? Why does society struggle to respond, even when the science is clear? What role do social norms, economic systems, political incentives, and psychology itself play in shaping our collective actions?

Hosted by Professor Sarah Perkins-Kirkpatrick and science communicator Iain Strachan, this episode explores not just individual emotions, but the deep systemic barriers, including economic short-termism, political inertia, and institutional design, that hold us back from meaningful climate progress.

Our guest for this episode is Professor Ben Newell, a Professor of Behavioural Science in the School of Psychology at UNSW Sydney, and Director of the UNSW Institute for Climate Risk & Response (ICRR).

Ben’s work brings together behavioural science, climate science, economics, and governance to understand how people and institutions make decisions, and how they can do better in the face of climate risk.

Show Notes

In this episode, we look at:

• What ‘climate grief’ and ‘eco-anxiety’ really are, and why more people are feeling them
• How emotions like anger, fear and frustration can drive, or block, action on climate change
• Why denial has shifted from rejecting the science to rejecting the solutions
• What psychology tells us about leadership, communication and trust in the climate crisis
• How our short-term political and economic systems struggle with a long-term global challenge
• Why seeing leaders act matters, and how it shapes community motivation
• How scientists and communicators can build trust by being open about uncertainty
• What it means to stay hopeful and avoid burnout while facing the scale of climate change

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Listen Now

This episode will be released and available to stream and download on Friday 7 November, 2025.

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Timestamps

00:00 – Cold open: Brick wall or tissues?
Sarah and Iain joke about coping mechanisms — from banging your head on a wall to crying in a corner — as they set up an episode on the psychology of the climate crisis.

00:30 – Meet the hosts
Sarah and Iain re-introduce themselves and the Centre of Excellence for 21st Century Weather before welcoming guest Professor Ben Newell, behavioural scientist at UNSW Sydney.

01:25 – Sandwich psychology
Ben shares his pre-recording lunch — a cheese and pickle sandwich — leading to an animated discussion about British condiments, Australian confusion, and childhood lunchbox crimes.

03:19 – Climate grief 101
Sarah kicks off the serious conversation: Ben explains climate grief, climate anxiety, and solastalgia — grief for environmental loss that’s yet to come.

06:40 – When climate anxiety took off
Ben charts the rise of climate-related distress in research, noting how publications and interest skyrocketed from 2020 onward.

10:35 – From Y2K panic to eco-distress
A surprising link: early climate anxiety surveys borrowed questions from studies of Y2K fears. Ben explains how human worry evolves with each new global threat.

11:35 – Anger as action
Sarah admits she feels more frustration than fear — and uses it to fuel action. Ben agrees anger can be a motivator when channelled into change.

13:01 – Denial, deflection, and shifting scepticism
Ben outlines how climate denial has evolved: from denying the science to denying the solutions, now focused on why action supposedly “can’t” be taken.

15:56 – The psychology of excuses
Sarah recalls a student experiment dismantling Angus Taylor’s “1% emissions” argument. Ben explains how framing and perception shape public understanding.

17:40 – Are we emotionally equipped to adapt?
Iain asks if humanity can handle the psychological toll of the climate crisis. Ben reflects on resilience, technology, and the limits of human adaptability.

22:06 – Silver linings and medieval plagues
Iain jokes that he’d rather face the climate crisis than the Black Death. Ben points out the irony that our technological progress both caused and enables solutions.

23:04 – When you care but others don’t
The hosts discuss the social strain of being climate-conscious in a disengaged circle — and how social norms shape behaviour change.

25:32 – From smoking bans to climate action
Ben compares the slow cultural shift on smoking to the potential for climate norms to change through collective effort and smart policy.

28:21 – Privilege and perspective
They reflect on how only those with basic security can afford to “worry about the planet”, highlighting a hierarchy of needs in climate concern.

33:07 – When leaders don’t lead
Sarah stumbles on a long question, Iain teases, and Ben delivers the insight: leadership signals shape public empowerment and action.

37:01 – Can Australia lead at COP31?
Ben explains why co-hosting a Pacific-focused COP could boost national credibility and drive wider societal momentum.

40:27 – Why haven’t we acted?
Iain compares climate inaction to the rapid global response to COVID. Ben says the difference lies in immediacy — acute vs. chronic threats — and entrenched vested interests.

46:17 – “I survived it, so it’s fine”
Sarah wonders if surviving disasters breeds complacency. Ben says experience can dull risk perception, making repeated events feel “normal”.

50:06 – Thinking long term
They unpack short political cycles, corporate horizons, and the difficulty of valuing future outcomes. Ben explains how “plausible futures” can help decision-makers plan.

54:54 – Climate risk reporting 101
Ben outlines new Australian disclosure laws requiring large organisations (>$50m turnover) to assess and report climate risk.

57:17 – Communicating uncertainty
Ben stresses that trust and transparency are key — scientists need to own uncertainty, not oversimplify it.

01:02:23 – Admitting mistakes
The group discusses why honesty about forecast errors builds credibility, using examples from cyclone warnings and Y2K.

01:03:47 – Inside the Institute
Ben explains how the UNSW Institute for Climate Risk & Response bridges science, economics, and law to align models and drive systemic change.

01:05:16 – Fast three: Brain biases and carrots
Quickfire round! Ben talks about “present bias”, fear vs. hope as motivators, and the myth that humans use only 1% of their brains.

01:10:54 – Where is the hope?
Sarah asks how to stay hopeful. Ben says channel anxiety into energy, collaborate, and focus on what your role enables — not on solving it alone.

01:13:32 – Many hands make light work
They close on the value of imperfect collective action: everyone doing something beats a few doing everything perfectly.

01:14:31 – Outro
Iain wraps up with thanks to Ben Newell and a preview of future episodes — from sea level rise to Indigenous climate knowledge — before Sarah eats an apple mid-sign-off.

Further Reading

ABC RN (n.d.) All in the Mind: Climate Psychology special episodes. [online] Available at: https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/allinthemind [Accessed 4 Nov. 2025].

Bain, P. G., Milfont, T. L., Kashima, Y., Bilewicz, M., Doron, G., Garðarsdóttir, R. B., Gouveia, V. V., Guan, Y., Johansson, L. O., Pasquali, C., Corral-Verdugo, V., Aragones, J. I., Utsugi, A., Demarque, C., Otto, S., Park, J., Soland, M., Steg, L., Gonzalez, R., & Saviolidis, N. M. (2016) ‘Co-benefits of addressing climate change can motivate action around the world’, Nature Climate Change, 6, pp. 154–157.

BETA – Behavioural Economics Team of the Australian Government (n.d.) [online] Available at: https://behaviouraleconomics.pmc.gov.au [Accessed 4 Nov. 2025].

Clayton, S., Manning, C. M., Krygsman, K., & Speiser, M. (2017) Mental health and our changing climate: Impacts, implications, and guidance. Washington, DC: American Psychological Association & ecoAmerica.

Climate Change and the Mind podcast (n.d.) Psychologists for a Safe Climate. [online] Available at: https://www.psychologyforasafeclimate.org [Accessed 4 Nov. 2025].

Climate Psychology Alliance (n.d.) [online] Available at: https://www.climatepsychologyalliance.org [Accessed 4 Nov. 2025].

ecoAmerica (2020) Climate for Health: Mental Health Guide. [online] Available at: https://ecoamerica.org [Accessed 4 Nov. 2025].

Gifford, R. (2011) ‘The dragons of inaction: Psychological barriers that limit climate change mitigation and adaptation’, American Psychologist, 66(4), pp. 290–302.

Head, L., & Harada, T. (2017) ‘Keeping the heart a long way from the brain: The emotional labour of climate scientists’, Emotion, Space and Society, 24, pp. 34–41.

Hulme, M. (2009) Why We Disagree About Climate Change. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.

IPCC (2022) AR6 WGII Report – Chapter on health, wellbeing and climate. [online] Available at: https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg2 [Accessed 4 Nov. 2025].

Newell, B. R., Lagnado, D. A., & Shanks, D. R. (2015) Straight Choices: The Psychology of Decision Making (2nd ed.). Hove: Psychology Press.

Newell, B. R., & Shanks, D. R. (2014) ‘Unconscious influences on decision making: A critical review’, Behavioral and Brain Sciences, 37(1), pp. 1–19.

UNSW Institute for Climate Risk & Response (ICRR) (n.d.) [online] Available at: https://www.unsw.edu.au/research/icrr [Accessed 4 Nov. 2025].

van der Linden, S., Maibach, E., & Leiserowitz, A. (2015) ‘Improving public engagement with climate change: Five “best practice” insights from psychological science’, Perspectives on Psychological Science, 10(6), pp. 758–763.

Weber, E. U. (2006) ‘Experience-based and description-based perceptions of long-term risk: Why global warming does not scare us (yet)’, Climatic Change, 77, pp. 103–120.

Yale Program on Climate Change Communication (n.d.) [online] Available at: https://climatecommunication.yale.edu [Accessed 4 Nov. 2025].

Why listen to Totally Cooked?

Because it’s time to feel empowered, not overwhelmed. Totally Cooked is a science-backed, straight-talking podcast about weather, climate change, and what it all means for life on Earth – especially here in Australia.

Hosted by climate scientist Sarah Perkins-Kirkpatrick and science communicator Iain Strachan, Totally Cooked breaks down how human activity is changing the Earth’s systems—from our skies to our seas—and what we can do about it.

From greenhouse gases to fire weather, supercomputers to Antarctic ice cores, this is climate science without the jargon, and where no subject is too complex or controversial.

Totally Cooked is for anyone who wants to understand the science of climate change—without needing a PhD. Whether you’re a high school student, policy maker, journalist, teacher, concerned citizen or just a little climate-curious, this podcast will give you the tools to think clearly and act confidently.

• Cut through the noise with clear, honest science.
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